Can We Talk? - An Interview with Jermaine Ee

Avoiding end-of-life planning is easy until you watch confusion and regret hit the people you love. We sit down with Jermaine Ee, founder of HeirLight.com, to talk about why so many families still don’t have a will and why the real obstacle usually isn’t legal knowledge, it’s avoidance, fear, and the belief that estate planning “isn’t for people like us.” 

Jermaine shares how his immigrant family story and a near-failure moment in high school shaped his grit, and how a career spanning YouTube marketing, augmented reality ads, and political campaign finance taught him how systems really work. Then the conversation gets personal: the loss that pushed him to start asking better questions, documenting what matters, and building a guided, AI-driven will-making platform designed to help people start the first conversation. If you’ve been searching for estate planning help, a simple way to write a will, or a calmer approach to end-of-life planning, this is a powerful place to begin. 

We also go beyond paperwork into the daily practice of meaning. Jermaine unpacks his line “clarity is love in practical form,” including a practical exercise with your credit card statement to spot what actually brings joy. From traveling through Albania and seeing how other cultures relate to contentment, to humanitarian logistics connected to Ukraine and lessons from Rotary International, we keep coming back to the same question: are we building a life that feels true, or just chasing titles. 

Listen through, share it with someone who needs a gentle push to plan ahead, and then subscribe, leave a review, and tell us what conversation you’re finally ready to have.

Transcript

Meet Jermaine And His Mission

SPEAKER_01 0:00

My next guest is someone whose life and career are defined by a brilliant ability to connect the dots backward. As the son of immigrant parents, he overcame a challenging high school transition and went from being told that he might not graduate at all to building a career defined by innovation, service, and entrepreneurship. He is a true professional chameleon. Having launched early YouTube marketing campaigns, run an AR design agency, worked in high-level political campaign finance, and even founded an education startup to help students conquer math anxiety. But his impact doesn't stop in the private sector. As a dedicated humanitarian, he has led global efforts with Rotary International, co-founded a massive nonprofit training for the next generation of philanthropists, and helped build critical refugee housing and medical transportation during the war in Ukraine. Today, he is the founder of AirLight, a guided AI-driven platform that helps people tackle estate planning and document what truly matters before it's too late. Listeners, please welcome to the Do to Expire podcast a creator, a humanitarian, an investor in human potential. Mr. Jermaine E. Now, let's grow.energy. That's no negative, all one phrase. Jermaine, welcome to the Do to Expire Podcast. How are you doing today, my friend?

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Very good. Very, very good.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

All right, good. We're excited to have you on this podcast today. The listeners I know will be just uplifted by the things that you have to say and also educated, and that's what we want. We want our listeners to uh really grasp just all areas of life and give them an opportunity to know the urgency of doing what you need to do, when you need to do it, and how you need to do it. You are an example of a person who's really making a difference. So to inform our listeners, where are you right now?

Traveling Through Albania And Beyond

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Well, right now I'm in the country of Albania. So it's a Saturday evening for us right here, uh, when we're recording. Uh yeah, it's a great country. It's very young, and it's very inspiring to be here because I think those of us who live in the US typically, our country has matured. It's it's been through a lot. We are superpower, but this country is so young. They're protesting on the street right now for some development that's going on by their coast, and it's inspiring to see people believe in their voice that something could happen from protesting.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

Wow, I love it. How did you get to Albania? What what led you there?

SPEAKER_00 3:53

Yeah, so my girlfriend and I were on a journey to see as much of the world as possible. We're at this is country 29 for us in the four years that we've been together. The idea is that you know, a lot of times we talk to our friends who have young kids now. One of the things that they often say to us is gosh, I'm uh it it would be so nice to be able to travel. And and uh one of the things that people say to me all the time is do it when you're young, do it before you have to settle down somewhere and gotta drive the kids to school and things like that. And so that's what we're doing.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

Man, that is awesome. You know, my wife and I, we uh like to travel as well, but um, you are an international traveler. I'm just uh kind of like a United States and you know, been to Costa Rica, whatever, but you know, it's like, you know, and Aruba as well. Uh so I guess that makes me a little international, but uh not 29 different places uh across the world. And that is just impressive. And I'm glad that you and your girlfriend are able to be able to do those things and and really make a difference. You are really showing individuals the importance of seeing the entire world. And I'm gonna be honest with you, Jermaine. I think it's a lack of travel and a lack of respect for other cultures when you do not have the opportunity to immerse yourself in those cultures. So, what has been the difference maker for you in your travels, things that you've seen around the world? What's been that one thing that has stood out as you've traveled from country to country that really resonates with you?

SPEAKER_00 5:37

At this point, I've been to probably around 50 countries myself, 29 with my girlfriend. And right around country number 10, maybe 12, I started realizing how much I appreciate home. And home for me is Los Angeles. You know, the things that I like about it, but it also shines a light on the things that can be different, the things that maybe we value too much in our culture.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

I'm just gonna call out materialism, right? It's like the things that the the the recognition, the keeping up with the Joneses that we value so much in our culture. When we travel to places that are, let's say, developing or just have less. I mean, going from the US, most countries and most countries have less, I would say, out of 194 or 197 countries out there. And it's just cool to see how people can be so happy or so content having less. And I think it's showing us a way of life that is different, you know, is shining a light on the other things that are important in life aside from accumulating or surviving.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

You know, that's that's one of the things that that really impressed me when we were traveling and we were in Costa Rica and even Aruba. The places where we were were not wealthy places, you know. The people they did not have much, but they enjoyed life. They were relaxed, they loved just living day to day, and they were grateful for that. And you don't see a lot of that in the United States. You see the hustle and the bustle, you see, like you said, people trying to keep up with the Joneses. And so with you experiencing all of that, how do you think you can help Americans get to that point of uh now I'm not trying to put it all on your shoulders, but how can you help Americans, those who you interact with here in the United States, to realize that more?

The Stories We Tell Ourselves

SPEAKER_00 7:41

I think there's twofold. You know, the on the higher level, it's all about challenging the narrative that we tell ourselves. You know, it we live on day-to-day on this autopilot, like it or not, that's just human nature, because it would be too exhausting to be very intentional and reflective every single day. But we live on this autopilot pilot of this narrative that we say, oh, I gotta get through medical school and then I'm 240k in debt. That would take me 30 years to pay off, but at least I know, right? The devil that I am familiar with is better than the devil that I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 8:17

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

And oftentimes, you know, we we think of travel. Uh a lot of my friends ask me, how do you afford this? But you know, the truth is when you move outside of the US, everything is cheaper. Yes, yes, stepping out of the country, right? So, so the life that you know, I I actually last weekend we went to this national park, we stayed in a guest house, and it was overlooking this gorgeous mountains. Uh, if you don't know where it is, it looks like Switzerland.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

And we stayed in this guest house where the mother and son housed us and cooked for us, and it was eighty dollars per night.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

Eighty dollars per night.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Eighty dollars per night. Yes, the flight to Albania, yes, the f the car. You know, we can we can make all of that, we can try to calculate all of that. But the truth is that there's probably a narrative in our brain that tells us that we're we're actually too busy surviving in the US and maybe spending too much of our energy trying to buy things you know, of a certain brand, of a certain stature.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Maybe because that's the average of our society, right? That's the signals to show that we belong in a community. And I think once we take a step back and really think about what we are spending our time and money with, uh that's that's a good place to start. And podcasts like this due to expire, what a good motto to remind us, right?

SPEAKER_01 9:44

Thank you so much. You know, I hear what you're saying, especially with like, you know, the name brand items. I have a few of those, right? But when you go to another country where that doesn't matter, just a t-shirt, uh plain t-shirt and a pair of blue jeans or shorts and whatever shoes, it doesn't sandals, it doesn't matter. You know, but here in America, we judge one another based upon what we have. And in those other countries, I think that's the difference, is that people are not judging you based upon what you have on. Uh, they judge you by how you interact with them, right? And I think that's the most important thing. You know, while we, I guess, try to end this travel segment. What's the the thing that you found to be um in your eyes that one thing that really helps people in those countries when they see Americans come over, and I don't know if you've been considered to be an American traveling to those countries, and when they see you as an American, how were you greeted or how were you received in going to those different countries as an American, so to speak?

SPEAKER_00 11:00

Well, I've got the benefit of playing each whatever side I want. So typically when I arrive someplace, you know, people assume I'm a Chinese tourist because I am ethnically Chinese. Okay, right, and then they realize I'm American. I'm not sure what assumptions they have, but typically when they realize I'm an Asian American from California, they assume I'm rich, they assume I work in tech, which they would be right. And because I'm, you know, there's not many people that come to Albania, and so people assume I'm well traveled, and they would all be right. And of course, these assumptions are you know, it depends on who you're talking to. And and I totally get it, even to my friends who are many of them a golden handcuff to a job, right? Because I'm 34 now, so we've been out of university for 12 years or so, and many of them are VPs at companies, and they they have a very high income, but their expense is also extremely high. Yes, and you know, they they often look at my life and either it it looks like I have a trust fund, which I don't, or that somehow I I've got a lot of Bitcoin, which I don't. It's so and I understand why these assumptions happen. It's because I think our brains are not really wired to handle social media, we're not wired to handle only looking at people's highlights all the time, right? And I I even want to take it take it back a step a little bit. I think the US is not the only culture who really cares about brands and and association to luxury. The Asian culture is probably the worst at it.

unknown 12:38

Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

You look at this movie like Crazy Rich Asian, right? It's all about luxury. But I think the difference is for many countries, there is a feeling of I am in my social economic level, and there isn't I think the US is the only place where it feels like anything is possible. Where if I worked hard enough, where if I you know go to a better university, be in the right room at the right time and and hustled harder, that it's possible to move up socioeconomic stand societies, which is a beautiful thing about the US, but it drives us crazy, right? Correct. It causes a lot of anxiety, and perhaps the helplessness of a lot of these other countries, you know. When when I went to India, in India, no matter how hard you work, you're kind of bounded by this socioeconomic standards that your family's given you.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

Yes, there are exceptions. There's there's 1.7 billion people in India. There are exceptions. Yes, but for the most part, people don't believe that they're able to break through. And so, because of that belief, people generally learn how to be content. And I'm not sure if that's a bad thing. That may be not a bad thing. Uh, maybe it's a bad thing from our lens of being Americans, but being content, uh, all my friends in Mexico are very content.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Yes.

From Near Failure To Showing Up

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Well, you know, you you built up a relentlessness, uh, if I can say that. As we go back maybe to you know your pre-college days, university days, to high school, uh at age 15, you were told that you probably would not graduate. And I know that that had to be something that set you back for a moment, but ultimately you began to grind and hustle at that point, it seems like you really begin to say, Well, you know what? I'm not going to let those words hold me back. So how did you actually feel when you heard those words? And what things did you do to kind of turn that whole idea around that you know, you wouldn't graduate, you would be less than, and you weren't going to make anything of yourself in life?

SPEAKER_00 14:54

So I was such a bad student that I moved three high schools because I just could not focus in school. You know, I I didn't I just didn't understand why the size of Saturn was important. You know, like probably all these things. I just I just could not rationalize to myself why I should pay attention in school. So because of that, by the time I was a junior, so the third year in high school, it was October, I went into my counselor's office and I was in it, wasn't it wasn't geometry, it was oh, it was informal geometry.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

No, right, okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

This is I am four years behind in math. Wow, I am two years behind in English. And my counselor said, Hey, look, to go to university, you need to have four years of English literature, you need to have all these requirements, and I didn't have half of them. And and she basically said, Hey, look, you you'd be lucky if you get into community college or if you can even graduate high school, and it's just the truth. And at that time, you know, I I had this Korean K-pop haircut, and I didn't have any friends, you know, because I I moved so much, I didn't have any friends. It was probably one of the lowest points of my life. I just remember thinking to myself, I know I'm better than this, but I didn't see a light at the end of the tunnel. But I saw that you know, my my parents, they moved to Oklahoma in the 70s, didn't speak any English, and I thought, if they can do it, I am basically made out of them. So I just gotta give it a shot. And and lucky enough, you know, things got better. I found some friends, I played music, so I I was in jazz band, I played the piano. Um, and one thing led to another, I just kept showing up. Uh, it wasn't a big relevation at all. It was just, you know, uh as the late great Kobe Bryant said, just keep showing up every day and keep shooting those free throws.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

Keep showing up. I I love that. Keep showing up. And so as you showed up every single day and you did what you did, uh, that led you to a career that kind of you know zigzagged from several places. But you know, you've been a pioneer of YouTube marketing, you know, Snapchat, all these things to political campaign finance. I mean, this is like a broad spectrum of things that you have done and experienced, and you've seen firsthand how talent and how money and and and how trust all intersect via those areas. In hindsight, when you look back, how did these different worlds that you were involved in prepare you for the deeply personal work that you're doing now? Because you're doing something very personal, and I I want to get to that in a moment, but I want to hear how did all of these career paths sort of lead you to where you are now?

SPEAKER_00 17:56

I spent all of my first 20 years of my life, maybe 25 years of my life, trying to understand how the war works. So, what you mentioned there, you know, I started creative agency, we worked on augmented reality ads. It was just me being curious about how how do ads show up on our homepage, you know, where where do things come from? Where who wrote that tagline that is so cool?

SPEAKER_01 18:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

And then when the 2016 election happened, I thought, you know, it seems like the world really lacked empathy. And I wanted to know how politics worked. And I cold emailed a bunch of people. I found out that there was a state treasurer of California at the time he was the treasurer that looked like me. He was an Asian American immigrant, started off. Um, well, he started off with even more humble beginnings. He started off where my parents started, which uh he was a uh I think he was washing dishes in I want to say Denny's, but I may be confusing this with Yens and Huang's story of NVIDIA. But he was he was definitely washing dishes in, I believe, South Florida. And one thing led to another, he became the treasurer of the world's sixth largest economy at the time. And his story was so inspiring to me that I wanted to get close to him. And I I showed up to many places, he he had fundraisers and rallies and things like that, and I ended up landing a job with his campaign. And as I kind of look back at my journey, the first half of it was to understand the world, and the second half of it was to know thyself, to understand what matters to me, and now I think I'm in the third half or third third of it, which is in the finite time that I have here, based on everything I know about myself and how the war works, what do I want to spend my time doing? As you kind of alluded to, I am I am doing I think what my life is everything I'm building with airlight is a representation of what I believe in in this world. And it's a it's a great feeling. It makes the tough days easier, you know, when we have five days in a row where there's no signups. It makes it easier to have a mission.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

I'm impressed by what you just said.

AirLight And The Avoidance Of Wills

SPEAKER_01 20:24

And uh you mentioned Airlight, which is kind of where I want to go next, to talk a little bit about airlight.com, which is um a guided will-making platform for those listeners out there who are wondering what we're talking about, and I'm gonna have Jermaine to explain that a little bit. But you built this basically in honor of your mother, who unfortunately passed away in, I believe, 2024, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:52

25. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:57

Okay. And so so it really evolved from um your standpoint from a raw and honest conversation with your parents about, you know, what did they want to leave behind? Why do you think so many families uh have trouble having these types of conversations? And uh and I'm so glad you did with your parents because look at what it led to. But where are the obstacles when it comes to this end-of-life talk, this setting things up for the future for those who will be left behind after you leave this earth? Tell us a little bit more about that.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

When I started this, I thought that rich people had wills and had estate plans and poor people didn't. That was my hypothesis. As I got to know my users more, I realized you know, this conversation is complex. For my mom, it was mainly the Belief that people who look like her didn't have estate plans. And what do I mean by that? An immigrant, a person of color, a person whose English is not her first language, who's still insecure about having four kids and going back to the workforce. Right? So she just never thought of this topic of estate planning as something that applied to her.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

And when I realized that, what does that mean in a day-to-day? It it showed up in the anxiety around retirement, but in more simpler terms, it showed up as the fear of dying or running out of money before dying.

SPEAKER_02 22:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Right. And if that fear is lingering in the back of your mind, how could you possibly live your life to the fullest?

SPEAKER_01 22:53

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

And so as her oldest son, and she's she's very lucky. She's got four kids who really care about her. I just wanted to know what is it that she cares about the most? What is it that she wanted to do? And what is it that, you know, what songs did she like when she was a teenager? I want to know all these things. And so I built this chat bot to talk to her about these. And what I realized after a few months is if I had all the information about all the things they care about or she cares about, and all the people that she cares about, I can really organize this into a legal document, right? And then I learned that 70% of Americans don't have a will, or 56% of adults don't have a will. When I learned about that stat, I realized, you know what? This is actually not a legal problem. It's actually an avoidance problem.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

And so that's what we built. You know, we built a conversational app. The idea is not to solve estate planning, it's not to solve uh estate tax. Okay. We don't do trust. We're just trying to get people to start the first conversation.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Yeah, you know, that's a a work that I've been doing for for quite some time. Uh and uh an app like this, or an avenue, shall I say, uh like AirLight can really help to move those conversations forward, but it starts within your heart, right? That's the first place where it starts. If you're not willing to even talk about it, then you're not gonna use Airlight. Nobody's gonna, you know, engage in that process. So, you know, I tried to prompt people to get to that point of having these difficult conversations as you have. Uh, and it had to be tough because you know, you're talking to your mom, you don't know how much longer your mom is gonna be with you. Uh and that had to be a tough process, but you did something very beautiful during this process. You you documented the things that your mom enjoyed. And tell us a little bit more about how you went along that journey, so to speak, of really uh experiencing some of the things that your that your mom experienced in her past and then allowing her to revisit those things.

Saving What Matters About Mom

SPEAKER_00 25:18

Yeah, I mean, it showed up in many ways, you know, simple day-to-day things like she really loved dancing. And because we're we're all busy with our own lives, we forget sometimes to ask our parents, you know, what what is something you really want to do? And what we realized was that in her past five years or so, she she gained weight and she was very insecure about her weight. She didn't she didn't like this idea that she showed up all her clothes are too small, she had to get new clothes.

SPEAKER_02 25:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

Uh, and this is this was caused by stress and also with aging and things like that. It wasn't that she was so unhealthy. Um, and and because of her weight, she was insecure about going to Zumba classes.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

So my my brother and I, we realized that she loved dancing. So we decided, my brother, who's seven years younger than me, we decided to go to Zumba class with her. And I remember the first day we walked into class, uh, it was just a bunch of middle-aged women and the two of us.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

Yeah, I don't know too many men that go to Zumba classes, but uh, you know, it's not saying that it can't happen, but you you are are an example of that.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

It was it was cool, it was very cool. I have to say it was very uncomfortable, but it was very cool to see my mom transition from imposter syndrome to the point where she's just moving and dancing and sweating and loving it. And you know, it now that I'm thinking back to those moments, you know, I I don't have a lot of regrets with my mom, but I kept thinking to myself, I wish I knew how to show her to love herself more.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

Because I think she had this narrative in her head that because she gained weight, she wasn't as beautiful as she once was. She didn't I don't think she loved herself when she looked in the mirror. And now that I think back to it, you know, I probably could have done the Zumba thing a little bit earlier. I probably could have gone to more events with her uh and and told her that she's beautiful more often. Yes, that's and I think in reflecting in these conversations, uh, yeah, one and I'll bring it back to the app a little bit. One thing I realized, I thought people were coming to our app and talking about things, protecting things. But at the end of it, what we realize is our users drop off, and when they do come back, they come back with a heartfelt message.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

I've been able to interview some of our users, and you know, one of the things that they told me was one very specific example that came to my head is you know, she had not thought about what her husband meant to her because life is busy, you don't stop and think about these things, right? And because she was working on airlight, uh our Faye, our AI, prompted her to leave a note for a gift that she wanted to give her husband.

SPEAKER_01 28:25

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

Right. And in this note was the first time that she had really sat down and think about these things. And what I realized is, you know, airlight, yes, yeah, we do estate planning, we do legal documents and all that, but it's really to slow people down a little bit and try to reframe the things that really matter to us. And with an app that really knows you, we get to do we get to have reminders and emails to try to bring you back to the conversation and to align your life around what matters. I think that's the magic.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

Uh it sounds magical. And uh I I would tell our listeners you you need to go check out airlight.com and uh experience that for yourself.

Clarity Is Love With Money

SPEAKER_01 29:12

And you have a beautiful philosophy in regards to life, Jermaine, and and that philosophy is clarity is love in practical form. You know, as I was reading that from your page and understanding that, can you unpack what that means to you as it relates to this so powerful quote I think that if you love someone, the best thing you can give them is to help them find clarity in the things that will make them happy.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

This comes in many forms, right? We I'm doing it through an app, but I'm also doing it by often asking my friends, hey, you know, the next time you get your credit card statement, instead of looking at the deadline and how much you owe and the minimum payment due, which we all do, right? Download it, right? Download it and put a circle around the things that made you happy. Right? Because the way you're spending your money, sometimes we forget that that is the most direct indication of what we're spending our lives' work on. You know, we work so hard to to accumulate this money, to get this money. And if we're not careful, we're spending it on things that we're just it's just mindless. You know, we're just buying things that maybe doesn't bring us joy. But if you do that once in a while, right, you you pull up your credit card statement and you circle the things that brought you joy, yes, make you feel good. And you you cross out the things that don't, but remember those things, right? So when the next time it comes around, you're like, you know what, uh, I'm gonna reduce that a little bit. Yes, right. Some things are necessary. Uh, I don't I don't feel happy paying my insurance, but I you we gotta do that.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

We gotta do it, right? We have to do it.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

But but there's certainly a lot of things in our lives that we do because we just forgot to question. We forget to align ourselves a little bit, and that's a very practical thing we can do, and that is a direct uh action of clarity is love in practical form.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

You know, uh you helped me out. I I'm going to go look at my credit card statement and um not just look at how much I owe, right, in the interest, but uh really, you know, look at those things that I am spending money on and those things that you know really don't bring me joy, but I spent money on it anyway, and now I'm paying interest on that stuff, right? If you don't pay it off at the end of the month. So very practical way of looking at life, and I appreciate that tip, and I know our listeners uh love that as well. As we just dive briefly into this next piece, uh, your life uh has a very poetic way of answering your efforts. You put in the work, and uh it it appears that life rewards you when you put in that work, and that's true for everybody, but you are the living embodiment of that. Uh and you actually met your life partner in is it called Latvia? Latvia? Am I saying that correctly? Okay, all right. I'm working on this, I'm working on my international language here. But you were speaking on a panel about humanitarian aid to Ukraine, and this is where you met the love of your life uh during this process. When you look back now, how you know how your personal life and your global service intersected at that moment, what does it tell you about being at the right place at the right time? Or do you even believe in that, being in the right place at the right time, or is it just something that you know when you do the work and you do your purpose, you're going to run into those things that naturally bring you joy?

SPEAKER_00 33:06

I think if you do the things that you enjoy, you tend to attract people who are similar. I but I say that with a huge caveat. My partner is Ukrainian. Okay, and as you just shared, we we met on stage. It doesn't get more romantic than romantic than something like that. Uh, and yet it is, I think the beauty actually comes from the everyday work that we have to do. You know, we are culturally very different. We are, I mean, we're talking long distance at war, yes, cultural and religious. And there's a lot of beliefs and things like that that we gotta work through. And I believe that this work is actually kind of what makes the relationship really cool, is that we we have to we have to question ourselves, you know. And early in a relationship, you would ask me, you know, why do you think do things these way? And I say, Well, that's how my that's how my family did it. But we never questioned these things, right? Okay, and and I think she brings her side of beliefs and and habits into the relationship as well. And when now we get to pick and choose and figure out what works for us and what's serving us. Um but I think it's a beautiful thing. It it is in many ways um I don't think I don't know if I believe in fate, but but I do believe that when you put yourself out there, you tend to attract the people uh that will reinforce some of those things, whether it's relationship or work or religion or anything.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Right. Now this begs

Ukraine Aid Rotary And Regret

SPEAKER_01 34:54

the question. How did you get involved in the Ukraine war situation? I mean, you you helped with medical transportation, you you helped with refugee housing. How did you even get involved in that?

SPEAKER_00 35:06

Yeah, when I was 22 years old, 21 years old, I got involved with Rotary International.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

So one of the world's oldest nonprofit. It's actually right by Detroit, it's in Chicago. Uh it's in Evanston, actually, not in Chicago. And they are, you know, this huge organization that have their hands in all sorts of things. And uh the biggest benefit that I got out of Rotary as a 22-year-old guy is I got to hang out with folks who are very successful, but much older than I am.

SPEAKER_02 35:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

And what I realized in these conversations is that they, despite being successful, have regrets. And I and I listen to these regrets because I listen to the stories of their life and the things that they found joy in and the things that they wish they did differently. And that informed a lot of how I live my life. Right. A lot of times people get to the end of their life and what they regret are just not being true to themselves or not being courageous enough to do what they want to do. And with a lot of successful, mostly men, but some women in Rotary, it's typically the trade-off, the opportunity cost of life, is that maybe they've worked too hard and they've neglected their families. And it really helped me align. But going back to your question, uh, I've I have a lot of random skill sets. I speak a lot of languages. Okay. And one of the skill sets that I have is I understand how customs and and uh logistics work across border.

SPEAKER_02 36:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

So when the Ukraine war, the Fulsk invasion of 2022 happened, um, I was approached by some guys in Italy and Switzerland who wanted to transport medicine to Poland and then by extension into Ukraine. And so through my custom broker relationships, I've helped them work out ways uh that are, you know, like emergency clauses that are able to examine some of these things and streamline some of these things. So I would say right time, right place, right time, as well as also I had a little bit of free time and I was just interested in uh crisis and um seeing how I can help. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

You know, I I'm thankful for you and those efforts. Uh, when we look across the world at human beings who are suffering, uh, we need people like you who are willing to step in and to help in whatever way we can. Uh, you don't have to be the person who solves everything, but if you can help uh in one or two areas, it makes a difference. And so thank you for uh that effort. We we applaud you here uh at the Do to Expire podcast.

Legacy Titles And Being Present

SPEAKER_01 37:51

With that being said, you you've reached a place in your life, and and and you know, we'll wrap it up here, but we've reached a you've reached a place in your life where you care less about titles, obviously. You care more about time and how your time is spent with with those whom you love and uh and helping others. Uh for our listeners who are currently caught up in the title chase of life, right? The corporate ladder and all of those things, what advice do you have for them in shifting their focus towards something that could leave an actual legacy?

SPEAKER_00 38:31

I have a very mixed relationship with the word legacy. On the one hand, I understand that having ambition, I am very ambitious, very competitive. I understand that helps drive us to do great things. On the other hand, with my mom's passing, I realized I didn't even know the story of my grandmother. In fact, I don't even really know her name. I just know her as grandma.

SPEAKER_01 38:59

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 38:59

And it made me think, w who am I to think that I am so I will be so important that my legacy, you know, this big old concept of a legacy will matter at all. Right? And I think the focus maybe instead is simpler is how will I live a life that's so present with the people that I love? And when I look back at it all, that to the few people that really matters in my life that they feel cared for, they feel seen, they feel heard, and I think that's the only thing that I'm aiming for. And but more human, right? Like I still care about airlight being successful. I would love to get some recognition, and I would love to eventually see some sort of things written up about airlight, which we've been getting a little bit more now.

SPEAKER_01 40:02

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 40:03

But I think, yeah, I think it's just how much emphasis do you put on it and at what what do you sacrifice in the pursuit of titles and just be okay with it, right? If you and if somebody comes up and say, I am so happy because I'm chasing to be other Forbes 30 and the 30 lists, and I'll say that's great, right? But if but if that's not serving you and not fulfilling what is inside, if it if it's all coming out of external validation, uh what the lesson will be difficult when the person wakes up to it. And besides, you can always pay a PR agency to get on Forbes 3030.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

People don't realize that, do they? They don't realize conversation. Yeah, we'll we'll save that for another time. You know, you know, my my my final question to you today, and um I want to thank you for being here, um, you know, most importantly, but my final question to you is if you could sit down with your parents uh at the very beginning of their immigrant journey to the United States, knowing everything that you know now about time and loss and and that word legacy that we just used, what would you tell them uh that could inspire them to maybe live a little differently than the way that they lived when they first got here? Is there any advice that you would give to your parents uh knowing what you know now?

SPEAKER_00 41:35

I don't think so. And I did ask, I I do have these conversations documented.

SPEAKER_02 41:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

I have I went back to Oklahoma with my mom, you know, we recorded these conversations. I asked her, I asked her if she would give herself any advice. And most of it is you know, to not to work maybe not as hard, but not really in the sense of out of fear. You know, I think my parents lived a great life. Um, obviously my mom's not with me now, but my my dad and her, they had this concept of building a fortress of the family. So my siblings are very close. We actually don't fight at all, uh, and we kind of know each other pretty well.

SPEAKER_01 42:21

That's beautiful. Let me tell you that. Let me just stop you right there. That is beautiful. And to hear, you know, siblings that just really get along. Um, I think that a lot of that credit has to go to your parents, you know, for that.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

Absolutely. And I think that's the thing that I didn't really understand. You know, we didn't have much growing up. We were not rich. Uh, in fact, my my parents, you know, started very humbly. My dad worked at a funeral home as his first job in Oklahoma. So I remember that. And and the fact that they made us feel like as long as we had each other, that we can always come home, that the home was the safe place without judgment. Uh, I think that was so magical. And I didn't really realize how lucky I am, I was uh to have it. But now that I'm looking at you know becoming a dad someday, I I reflect on a lot of these and I think about you know, what are the lessons I want to carry forward, as well as also some of the things I don't want to carry forward. Um but I think for for you know, as I'm saying this now, I think for for my mom, it's it was always to love herself more. Yeah and perhaps that is what the answer to your question would be.

SPEAKER_01 43:34

Wow. Well, there's no place like home. I I think we can pull that out of that too as well. And I'm grateful for your parents for raising a family and raising children uh who are making a difference and impacting the world, and we appreciate

How To Find Jermaine Online

SPEAKER_01 43:50

that. So, Jermaine, thank you for being a part of the Do to Expire podcast uh today. And we can't wait to hear more. We can't wait to hear what's next. How can people who are interested uh in what you're doing find out more about you?

SPEAKER_00 44:05

Well, I like to say that I have a one-of-one name. I'm named after Jermaine Jackson.

SPEAKER_01 44:10

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 44:10

My parents love the Jackson 5.

SPEAKER_01 44:13

Well, I'm sure did your dad see the movie? Did he see the Michael movie? Yep. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 44:17

Yep. So I I I feel this kinship to Jafar Jackson. Not that for anyone.

SPEAKER_01 44:24

I love it because that's Jermaine's son. Right, you're right.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

Exactly. Yep. Yes. So they so they named me after Jermaine Jackson because they thought their firstborn American son, they wanted to give them the most American name they can think of. And in the late in the late 80s, it was the Jackson 5. That was nothing more American than Jackson 5 to them. They have no idea that Jermaine was a I think 99% black name.

SPEAKER_01 44:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:49

So I've lived all my life with a black name, and I I only found out maybe when I was 17. So I love uh but I I do have a one-of-one name, so I'm pretty easily found online if you just Google Jermaine. My my last name is spelled E.

SPEAKER_01 45:03

E. Yes. And so, all right, well, that's fine. You heard that. Google him online, search out Jermaine E.E. I don't know if we have any moves or vocals like Jermaine, but um, we'd be interested to see those as well. But anyway, uh I want to thank you uh for joining me, and I want to thank our listeners for joining us on this journey today, on this podcast, this incredible experience and this this great interview uh with a person who is really making a difference from a humble standpoint. And so we appreciate you, Jermaine, and all the work that you're doing. Uh, and may you be blessed that you continue to make a difference in this world.

SPEAKER_00 45:43

Thank you. Thanks for having me on.

SPEAKER_01 45:45

All right, we appreciate you. And to our listeners, that's it for today. I'm your host, Corey Kennard.